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SMP LeaderTalks

#63 | Woke debate and social division

SMP LeaderTalks

14. August 2024

Georgiy Michailov meets Esther Bockwyt

On wokeness, freedom of expression and structural racism.

1 h 1 Min

"The woke movement is putting freedom of expression under pressure."

Gendering, structural racism and identity politics: few topics are currently as controversial as the debate surrounding the wokeness movement. While some see it as a necessary step towards justice and inclusion, others see it as excessive activism that is poisoning public discourse. We asked ourselves: What other perspectives are there beyond the comment columns of social media? In this episode of SMP LeaderTalks, we have therefore invited a guest who looks at wokeness from a completely different perspective. From a psychological perspective. 

"Woke supporters portray themselves as do-gooders - there's something very narcissistic about that."

Esther Bockwyt is a psychologist, expert and author. She has been interested in the social and psychological aspects of the wokeness movement for years. In an interview with Georgiy Michailov, she talks about her book ‘Woke: Psychology of a Culture Clash’. And shares her insights into the origins, developments and impact of woke culture on the social and political landscape. 

"Language is overrated when it is expected to create reality."

Bockwyt explains how she believes the woke movement has changed the social climate. What wokeness has to do with narcissism. What role social media plays in this. And what impact the overestimation of language has on freedom of expression and public discourse. 

*Video only in German

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